Number of voters: 82
a) [Atayemi] -
Number of votes: 1 (1%) Voters: [killarydaclown]
b) [Forever Equine] -
Number of votes: 31 (38%) Voters: [Beki in Wonderland], [Stray Kitty], [Lady Edana-Arianrhod Rós], [XxTsomexX], [Lothuriel], [Artsieladie], [Silver Moon], [Kahri], [Shjahjdahdvwa], [Black Raven], [// Grace //.And..Bend], [Illona], [Orey], [Paul Doyle], [Shadow Girl056], [SamiiiNomNom], [Iseld], [professer sofa surfer], [.::dark_angel::.], [Twitchy*], [~The Dreamer Ilaes~], [aurodi], [Bulma], [Vou], [Blue Hawk], [Sirengirl], [pdiotte], [Gwendylyyn], [Nicki314], [eldona_1], [Silverina]
c) [Beki in Wonderland] -
Number of votes: 1 (1%) Voters: [Estantia]
d) [Kahri] -
Number of votes: 0 (0%)
e) [Toffeejalapenos] -
Number of votes: 0 (0%)
f) [blu.nation] -
Number of votes: 3 (4%) Voters: [I stabbith ye], [fen], [human_rhapsody]
g) [Kuramasgirl] -
Number of votes: 3 (4%) Voters: [Zab], [ghettosissta], [Muerta]
h) [Zab] -
Number of votes: 6 (7%) Voters: [Forever Equine], [Cia_mar], [Kuramasgirl], [This House is Deleted7], [*akuma*], [Maeve104]
i) [Lexi. Short and Sweet!] -
Number of votes: 0 (0%)
j) [Artsieladie] -
Number of votes: 15 (18%) Voters: [shotokan_gal], [Lexi. Short and Sweet!], [Ikko], [dayah], [Dragonfeather], [toothrod], [bluefarie], [Artsie_ladie], [gruffybear], [Morningstar Rising], [Kelaria], [geirrekr], [Rasperel], [BlackDragon], [I have left]
k) [Yuriona] -
Number of votes: 2 (2%) Voters: [Gwenn*], [BinaryPhoenix]
l) [dayah] -
Number of votes: 6 (7%) Voters: [Atayemi], [Winchester143980], [Joneya], [irezel], [Jitter], [anamtear]
m) [Kaelin] -
Number of votes: 1 (1%) Voters: [Oron Wendi]
n) [inte här] -
Number of votes: 7 (9%) Voters: [Yuriona], [moira hawthorne], [Fire-n-Ash], [Kyrinn], [Nylen Estrall], [Orouriel], [Vegeta1017]
o) [Dragonfeather] -
Number of votes: 1 (1%) Voters: [Eveilber]
p) [Eveilber] -
Number of votes: 1 (1%) Voters: [PnkShpGnWld]
q) [moira hawthorne] -
Number of votes: 4 (5%) Voters: [Vampyre Wolf], [Gabycat], [inte här], [*Phoenix*]
r) [Demon Epona] -
Number of votes: 0 (0%)
2007-02-13 [Zab]: Aw... :S Just one of those days, huh? I swear, sometimes I can't even draw a stick-horse..
2007-02-13 [Lothuriel]: I have never been able to draw animals very well but, this is insane. I would scan a copy but, it is too embarassing!! I will just have to try some more while the kiddies are napping.
2007-02-13 [Zab]: no, scan it! Maybe someone can help you out with good advices? I'm curious now..x)
Yeah, better luck. :)
2007-02-13 [Lothuriel]: Ugh, no way! It is hideous...beli
2007-02-13 [Zab]: pm me? :3
2007-02-13 [Lothuriel]: Good gravy!! I seriously would but, I threw it away. It was hideous...but, I will promise to scan this one when I am "finished" with it. Perhaps a few pointers will help.
2007-02-13 [Zab]: okies...x)
I hope you'll get good advices:P
2007-02-14 [dayah]: ooh I really like that second one zab...thats awsomeness..
2007-02-14 [Zab]: Thanks:)
2007-02-14 [Artsieladie]: If anyone is interested, [Hedda] posted this link on Horse photo reference. It's a tutorial on the drawing of horses.
2007-02-14 [Zab]: Yay! *phew* x) I love that pic..:O XD
2007-02-14 [Zab]: *lmao* Thanks:P
I was more worried it wasn't black enough..x)
2007-02-14 [Artsieladie]: It's a black horse with red highlighting as though it's in an atmosphere of red. The eye of the horse really catches the viewer's eye. At least, it does with me. :D
2007-02-14 [Zab]: ^_____________
2007-02-14 [Artsieladie]: *grins* As you well should be!
2007-02-14 [Zab]: Especially when the compliment comes from an artist like you;)
2007-02-14 [Artsieladie]: Thanks, but now you're making me blush! :D
2007-02-14 [Zab]: *grins* x)
2007-02-14 [Dark Side of the Moon]: hmmmm... All of this artistry is making me think I should finish this one: Bummer I can't enter my own contest! *is kidding*
2007-02-14 [Zab]: That one is really good. :D
2007-02-14 [Dark Side of the Moon]: Thankees! By the way, Happy Valentine's Day everyone!
2007-02-14 [Zab]: Happy Valentines day:P
2007-02-15 [Sweetheart, you're a fucking trainwreck.]: Happy Valentines Day. :] And I may enter. It's still open, correct?
2007-02-15 [Dark Side of the Moon]: Yep, contest deadline is March 30th, 2007. Plenty of time to enter!
2007-02-22 [moira hawthorne]: awesome twitchi!
2007-02-22 [Dark Side of the Moon]: [inte här], your second entry of the North Swedish Horse is fine. There are very dark brown ones and then there are just brown ones. I think this one is dark enough to qualify as black. In certain kinds of light, even black horses will display the brownish qualities of their coats. Take a look as these beauties for example: http://www.bla
2007-02-22 [inte här]: That's good. ^^ That colour Ceasar has though really looks black, but with brown/red highligts around mule, eyes and elbows. Personally I prefer those to genuinely black ^^
2007-02-22 [XxTsomexX]: awesome!
2007-02-22 [moira hawthorne]: he has makeup! to highlight his black!
2007-02-22 [Zab]: Twitchi; doesn't he have that colour that's called ''rapp'' in swedish? He's dark, dark brown in the summer and completely black in the winter (except perhaps around the muzzle and so, but it usually gets a bit more grey-ish at winter)? I had a horse like that, without any brown:P
2007-02-23 [Dragonfeather]: ya! i got mine on! i know i dont stand a chance with all these better pictures, but i really dont care! as long as im in! ya! so happy....... wait a sec? what am i doing? run!
2007-02-23 [Dark Side of the Moon]:
2007-02-24 [inte här]: zab; rapp, doesn't that refer to a completely black horse? O.o that's what I learned once ^^'
I think the colour ceasar has is named black-brown. They are black (or very dark brown) on their body and has those highlights. The body really does shine of blue-ish rather than being brownish on those really dark black-browns ^^ It's a winter picture, after all. And those highlights looks really vribrant <3
2007-02-24 [Zab]: Not after what I've learnt.. rapp is a color among Nordsvenska horses (others can have it too I think), they are never truly black. In the winter they are black (the coats highlighting blue/white, and the brown markings around the nose, if they have any, more greyish) but in the summer they are dark brown, almost black:P I suppose it's black concidering to this contest, but truly black horses are black all year around:P Just some side-informati
2007-02-24 [moira hawthorne]: some of these othese... while lovely drawings... seem to be getting away from black...
2007-02-24 [Eveilber]: yea, sorry did not have a black colouring pencile and i do not think i will have it in time.
2007-02-24 [moira hawthorne]: you dont need a black colouring pencil ... you njeed to colour your horse black... there is a difference...
2007-02-24 [Atayemi]: Hey it's not his fault. :/
It's his entry, let him do as he wishes. ^___^
2007-02-24 [Lexi. Short and Sweet!]: *nods* besides the horse could be black with a really shiny coat thats reflecting alot of light back in certain places and if you're being really contrary black is the absense of colour and with the black being absent there is no colour therefore technically it IS black. *nods* xD
2007-02-24 [Yuriona]: Geez moira... you're awful bossy for someone who hasn't even entered the contest and isn't the contest owner.
2007-02-25 [moira hawthorne]: there Im entered... so I can have an opinion and offer artistic advice.. to no one in specific.. and to one one who has to pay attention to me at all... besides the fact I have been watching this wiki since it was opened... and have invited artists to join in...
2007-02-25 [Yuriona]: That's nice. That still doesn't give you the right to be so negative.
2007-02-25 [Forever Equine]: Guys, don't worry about your entries unless [Dark Side of the Moon] says something. She's the only person that should concern you about quality or image issues.
That being said, keep up the nice entries.=)
2007-02-25 [moira hawthorne]: hahahaha... you are the negative one... calling someone/me 'awful bossy' I was being nice... I complimented the art.. 'lovely drawings' and gave helpful artistic advice...
2007-02-25 [Yuriona]: "you njeed to colour your horse black" Not my words, yours.
2007-02-25 [Yuriona]: Indeed.
2007-02-25 [moira hawthorne]: actually the owner's words... ...'art contest to see who can draw the best black equine'... ...'2. The theme is black horses. White markings on the horses are acceptable, but the horse should be mostly black.'... but its not nasty or mean.. its writen as .. you can do it.. you dont have to have a black coloured pencil.. you just have to colour the horse black...
2007-02-25 [Eveilber]: np, next time i will try better, thanx ^___^'
2007-02-25 [Eveilber]: so is that better... black enough
2007-02-25 [Yuriona]: Looks good to me [ridd4ev4rg]. :)
2007-02-25 [blu.nation]: moira, yours is lovely ^_^ what medium did you use?
2007-02-25 [Eveilber]: thanx
2007-02-25 [moira hawthorne]: there you go [Eveilber] now its striking as a black horse! good use of invert...
thx [blu.nation] mine is mixed media... first its acrylic paint on material... than I played with it in photoshop and 12 layers later...
2007-02-26 [inte här]: hwaaa~ hawthorne-senp
2007-02-26 [moira hawthorne]: Id love to see that! a twitchi trooll horse!
2007-02-26 [Zab]: I changed my entry because, well..it felt more dark brown than black.
2007-02-26 [Eveilber]: i liked the first one more, but it should be black and i think i will keep it like that. but thanx ^.^ but im sure u will beat me any way.
2007-02-26 [Dark Side of the Moon]: I think that the way the colour of horses show from one person to the next may depend on the monitor that they are using. The monitor that I use at work tends to show things a little darker than they really are, so some of the "black-brown" horses show nearly black on my screen. As the owner of the contest I have been letting everyone know if their entry is acceptably black or not. So far each entry is acceptable within the definitions of what I think is black, even the black-brown ones. Some of the entries are grey in colour but that is because of the medium that they used to create it or are showing the amount of shine and shadow on the horse. That being said, please let's bring the subject to a close. There is no need to argue over it. Besides, I feel poo today and don't feel like arguing...
2007-02-27 [Lothuriel]: O__o...
I wasn't arguing. I am just a huge fan of the graphite. That's all. I love pencil art. Not much else I can say about this.
2007-02-27 [Lothuriel]: oooh...sorry. I guess since it was after my comment I assumed it was directed toward me. I am a bit sensitive right now so...yeah. Sorry
2007-02-27 [moira hawthorne]: ooooh sure you were! hahahaha
2007-02-27 [Dark Side of the Moon]: *hugs all of you*
I don't think it was really "arguing"; more like a lively discussion! ;) Sorry [Lothuriel], I wasn't directing any particular comments at you. I was just pointing out the lively discussion being had about what is black and what isn't. I was just overly nervous, I guess.
Everyone's been really great so far and, since this is my first contest, I really appreciate it!
2007-02-28 [Zab]: Changed entry again..x)
2007-02-28 [Zab]: Thanks!^_^
2007-02-28 [XxTsomexX]: i like!
2007-02-28 [moira hawthorne]: ooooh yes nice! wow this is gonna be another contest its hard to vote for ... so many excellent images...
2007-02-28 [Titanium Tiger]: wow nice entries to all of you!! i cant get my scaner working but if my teacher will let me i might use hers!!
2007-02-28 [Zab]: Thank you:P
Nice teacher you have.:P *remembers when I didn't have a scanner*
2007-02-28 [Titanium Tiger]: yeah shes a pretty kewl art teacher!
2007-03-03 [Kuramasgirl]: Just a regular old #2 mechanical pencil that takes .7 lead :3 That's for the first one, anyway. The second one was done on Photoshop.
2007-03-04 [inte här]: As for Edinburgh, I used pencils. It was some time ago, but I'm pretty sure there were hb and 2b. With Ceasar, it was coloured pencils, Derwent studio.
2007-03-05 [Nadie importante]: thank you girls! they look very good
2007-03-06 [Titanium Tiger]: they look awsome guys!!
2007-03-06 [Tableau Vivant]: My god you people are talented!
These works of art are absolutely great!!
If I was the one to choose, I'd have a really, really hard time
2007-03-06 [dayah]: cute zab. me likey
2007-03-06 [Zab]: thanks :)
2007-03-06 [moira hawthorne]: hahaha yup.... but I like your others aswell...
2007-03-07 [dayah]: well I love all zabs..so HAHA *sticks tounge out* hehehehe...the
2007-03-07 [Zab]: hehe, thanks:P Most entries here are great..
2007-03-13 [XxTsomexX]: wow nice entry!
2007-03-13 [Demon Epona]: ...me?
2007-03-13 [XxTsomexX]: *nods*
2007-03-13 [Demon Epona]: -^^- Thank you!
2007-03-13 [XxTsomexX]: no problem
2007-03-14 [ask me]: lov #11
2007-03-14 [Yuriona]: Thanks. :)
2007-03-14 [Gwenn*]: I find all entries so wonderul ^^ I adore this contest :)
2007-03-17 [Silver Moon]: love the art. I need art for a wiki but I don't have the money to pay. Full credit will go to the artists anyone interested?
2007-03-20 [Silver Moon]: I need art for a wiki. I will give full credit and a reference to the artists for their work
2007-03-20 [Silver Moon]: Fantasy, and forest scenes.
2007-03-20 [Artsieladie]: If I can help, I will. If you have some specifics in mind, I could know better. I do, do scenery, but my fantasy art tends to be "realistic", if this is possible, for I'm a realistic artist more than anything. :)
2007-03-20 [Silver Moon]: I'll send you the description
2007-03-20 [Artsieladie]: Ok.. :D
2007-03-20 [Silver Moon]: Oh I would love to, Do you feel up to the task of ab almost ocean like scene?
2007-03-20 [Zab]: Sorry Demon Epona, I accidentaly deleted your comment when I was looking for a link to click (just to update the page)...
2007-03-20 [Demon Epona]: Oh XD! It's ok!
My other comment was;
...Would you be able to sent me the description too? I've been wanting to draw lately, but I haven't been able to come up with anything to draw.
...Or something to that effect... XD!
2007-03-20 [Silver Moon]: Do you feel up to the task of an almost ocean like scene?
2007-03-20 [Demon Epona]: ...like... the shore of a ocean, under the water, in the middle of nowhere above the water...etc...
2007-03-20 [Silver Moon]: the shore
2007-03-20 [Silver Moon]: I will send you the details
2007-03-20 [Demon Epona]: Sure. I'll see what I can do. ;) *goes to look at the message*
2007-03-21 [Blood Sucking Beauty]: i can kinda draw an shore like scenery! lol
2007-03-22 [Silver Moon]: what other types of landscapes Blood Sucking Beauty?
2007-03-29 [moira hawthorne]: wow what a b/g *Artsie_ladie*
2007-03-29 [Artsieladie]: *laughs* Thanks! :D Would you believe I've been working on the background for a while? A little here & a little there, between my other tasks & life issues. Then once I got the background the way I wanted it, then I had to give the horse the highlights to go with the background & add the horse's shadow, of course. :P
2007-03-29 [Dark Side of the Moon]: One more day everybody! For the people that submitted two entries I am going to pick out the best entry of the two and then put those and the rest of the entries in a poll on the page. Depending on how well the voting goes, I'll leave it open for votes for two weeks. If we don't get many votes in that time I'll let it go another two. The prize badges are all ready for the winners!
That being said, good luck everyone!
2007-03-29 [Artsieladie]: Sounds fine. It is your contest & I'm so glad you had this contest. I'm really glad that so many great artists entered! There has been a nice showing here. 'Course, my fav' subjects to create are horses! *whinnies* :-D
2007-03-29 [Dark Side of the Moon]: I'm happy and relieved to be honest! I thought for sure, with it being my first contest, that there wouldn't be a very good turn-out. I'm happy that it got lots of great entries! 8)
2007-03-29 [Artsieladie]: Yes. :-D
2007-03-30 [Titanium Tiger]: looken good guys!!( and girls)
2007-04-01 [Kahri]: When does voting start?
2007-04-02 [Dark Side of the Moon]: I'm sorry. I've been extremely sick all weekend. It will start as soon as I can get the poll set up. Should be in the next few minutes or so...
2007-04-02 [Dark Side of the Moon]: Okay, poll is up now! Go vote!
2007-04-02 [Lothuriel]: How many times are we allowed to vote?
2007-04-02 [Dark Side of the Moon]: One vote per person please. It's not set up for multi-voting. :^)
2007-04-02 [Lothuriel]: Ok, I was just making sure...there are so many good ones.
2007-04-02 [moira hawthorne]: I could of use a mininmun of 4 votes!
2007-04-02 [Artsieladie]: Gosh! One vote is sooooooooooooo
2007-04-02 [XxTsomexX]: lol
2007-04-03 [Forever Equine]: I can definitely relate to that dilema. XD
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: good luck guys
2007-04-03 [Lothuriel]: Ugh there are like 6 that I want to vote for...I literally rolled a dice to choose because I couldn't weigh my decision.
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: I had a problem too
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: *giggles at the thought of Loth rolling 1d6 to choose a favourite*
2007-04-03 [Lothuriel]: *is such a gamer*
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: lol Yuriona do you play rpgs than?
2007-04-03 [Artsieladie]: Does a kitty purrrr? lol
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: lol yup
2007-04-03 [Artsieladie]: *pokes Yuri & grins*
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: LOL! Yeah, I'm a 2nd Edition DnD gamer. *holds up Crown Royal bag with multiple sets of dice*
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: lol
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: I'm totally cursed though. My d20 hates me. I get more critical failures on rolls than decent hits. *falls over*
2007-04-03 [Lothuriel]: Haha, The great 1 of doom...dunnn dunnn!!!
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: what do ya mean?
2007-04-03 [Lothuriel]: Umm...on a d20 when you roll a one during an attack or skill check, you fail. You not only fail but your critically fail. That means if you are trying to climb a tree you fall out and land on your head, if you are swinging a sword at someone, you either get it stuck in a wall or your own foot...that sort of thing.
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: Or take out one of your own party members. >< I had one game end rather badly because I accidentally hit guys in my own party with critical failures. Gah...
2007-04-03 [Lothuriel]: I feel your pain sister...I feel your pain.
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: We were taken out by a possessed doll that was only a few hit points from being defeated! We did have a good laugh over it though.
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: or you slice yourself too I did that
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: Or lose a nice weapon. That's happened to me more than once.
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: oooooo ouch
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: Yeah... *winces*
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: I had my sword break but it was a normal one
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: I once lost a nice +2 halberd. (long polearm with a massive blade on the end.)
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: lol I know what it is. How did you lose it?
2007-04-03 [Yuriona]: I got cocky and failed an intelligence roll, getting myself captured by an evil mage. *sighs* When I was rescued the halberd got left behind. ;_;
2007-04-03 [Silver Moon]: ah sorry
2007-04-04 [dayah]: oh wow artsie I did see the colord version with pretty colors...me likey
2007-04-05 [Silver Moon]: there is allot of great peaces on here I wish i could vote for all of them lol
2007-04-08 [Artsie_ladie]: Wow! Artsie! Awesome horse! I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!
2007-04-08 [Artsieladie]: *grins & blushes* Well, thank you! It's really nice to hear when someone likes what you do. I spent mega time on this piece & I enjoyed every minute for I wub, wub, wub horses! :D
2007-04-08 [I stabbith ye]: Congratulation
Loved the Drama in your picture! Everyone elses was very good too...and to all my friends whome I didn't vote for don't hit me >.< I just couldn't resist voting for this one ^^
2007-04-08 [moira hawthorne]: there were just too many ggod ones here... friend asside I just couldnt vote for all the ones I loved!
2007-04-09 [Dark Side of the Moon]: How's everyone been lately?
2007-04-09 [Lothuriel]: Gerrrreat!!
2007-04-16 [blu.nation]: Lol, I didn't think anyone would actually vote for mine... it was supposed to be just a placeholder. But thanks ^_^
2007-04-21 [Sirengirl]: 'Under blue moon' Was gorgious. I like the way it moves. So was "Nightstar" By *Artsie_ladie*
Wish I had more votes.
2007-04-21 [Forever Equine]: It has been a very difficult time choosing for this contest. *nods*
2007-04-21 [Rondel]: Of the ones I know I'm not voting for, because I don't think they show the best (technical) artistic quality in the contest, the ones that really grab me by something deep inside are #15, by [Dragonfeather], and the one by [moira hawthorne]. I love the individual styles of these two pieces, despite the fact that others surpass them in technical quality. In fact, they're likely to be the ones that stick with me the most, other than a blur of awe at the folks who can do the near-photo-qua
2007-04-21 [moira hawthorne]: thx u very much Rondel... Ive never aspired for photorealism..
2007-04-22 [gruffybear]: I HAVE CHECKED OUT ALL OF THE ENTRIES IN THE HORSE CONTEST AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT "NIGHT STAR" really impressed me as the entry that really caught my eye. the colors really pop out at you, the reflection of the colors of the sunset and the way they reflect in the black of the horse. WELL DONE, KUDOS TO YOU ARTSIE LADT.
2007-04-22 [moira hawthorne]: it is very lovely! it was one of the 5 I really wanted to vote for!
2007-04-22 [Artsieladie]: Thanks, [gruffybear]! :D *blushes* If I do a portrait of a specific horse, naturally, I have to make my image look like that specific horse. When I make a horse image, not a portrait of a particular horse, then I have free rein to make my image the best possible specimen of a horse there can be through my eyes, but also by the knowledge I've learned about horses. I love animals, but horses have a special place in my heart like no other. So, when I make an image of a horse, I want it to reveal this & to show their magnificence, their beauty, & their spirit. I agree with Moira about wanting to vote for more. There are many great entries here. I just want to say, though, that I think [Kahri] & [Demon Epona] are doing great with their horsey art. I see a nice defining in their art. :D
2007-04-22 [Kahri]: Thanks Artsie!
2007-04-22 [Artsieladie]: You're very welcome!
2007-04-22 [Demon Epona]: Thank you Artsie!! The day after this contest closed, I finished a great(from my point of view) drawing of my friends horse. She happens to be black too. And it was more realistic than the ones I entered in here, but oh well!
2007-04-22 [moira hawthorne]: I like to see that full size
2007-04-22 [Kuramasgirl]: That's really very good :D I wish you'd had time to put it in the contest.
2007-04-22 [moira hawthorne]: oooooh yes! you showed me! yes very good!
2007-05-01 [Titanium Tiger]: congrates to everyone!!
2007-05-01 [Forever Equine]: Wonderful contest guys! *hugs* and Congrats to everyone!
2007-05-01 [moira hawthorne]: Wais Hail and congrats!
2007-05-02 [Zab]: Congrats to the winners! ^_^
2007-05-02 [Nadie importante]: Hey everyone! I followed the contest and you all had great entries! btw..if any of you like medieval fantasy and unicorns, please drop by my wiki page^^ leicrah's story
Thanks and congratulation
2007-05-02 [Dark Side of the Moon]: And I highly suggest this story too! It's awesome! :)
2007-05-04 [Kuramasgirl]: Congratulation
2007-05-05 [Forever Equine]: Umm, for this piece I used smooth Bristol Board. I generally use it or card stock...highly recommended!
2007-05-05 [Demon Epona]: Oh, ok, thank you!
2007-05-07 [Dark Side of the Moon]: Bristol Board is awesome! I'll never use anything else ever again.
2007-05-07 [Forever Equine]: Ditto!
2007-05-08 [Demon Epona]: ...I don't think I've ever used it....If I have, I didn't know...