2008-05-06 [Aradon Templar]: I don't recall too much of the available races to choose from. The races you have listed above look to be good to keep, though I'd be hesitant with allowing a demon race in this new setting, but I suppose it'd be manageable. I think a few more races in addition to the four/five above would be nice, too. Perhaps include the races planned for Centra, unless you were reserving those for something special. I likedt he idea of bloodlines that I found on the Fantasma Races section, though I don't think they need to be quite so numerous. Two or maybe three per race would allow for additional character customization (Which I always like :D).

As for features related to races, I think race should impact slightly your stat growth rates or original stats, depending on how the game works, and perhaps give you a few (one to three at most, I think) racial abilities, much like Warcraft did.

2008-05-06 [Aradon Templar]: Ah, I just found the page I had been looking for (an older version of the Fantasma Races). Honestly, I liked all the choice variety. However, a lot of it seemed like it was of minimal impact to battling and would deal more with the roleplaying aspect of developing your character. I don't think they're all necessary for the new layout. I did note, as Blood Raven was pointing out, your variations of the undead/demon/light variants, and I think that could be applied to the core races to create five different races with three subvariants that would provide more than enough customization for characters. Of course, if you didn't want to be evil or light, you might want to provide a neutral/regular variant too. Anyways, that's how I feel about them. And again, I was looking over your old version of Fantasma Races and I have to say again, great job coming up with all that :)

2008-05-06 [Adaman]: Trust me, the amount of work put into Fantasma astounds even myself. I agree entirely with every point of view listed here. However, there is an issue with concern to the "orcish" (considering calling them "Fel" since they are cursed by demons) races, or more specifically the cursed versions of 'core' races. The issue itself has been talked over, but it's still something of a debate. Here's an illustrative example...

Humans have different bloodlines, seven specifically. Now, if a Hyperborean (fairly big people, foot taller than average) person is turned into an orc... and a Lemurian (fairly small people, foot shorter than average) person is turned into an orc... Are all orcs to be treated as equals despite cultural differences from the people they were part of originally? Don't think simplicity is a necessary option, because if we base Fantasma on changing characters every time we change dungeon locations (because they could very well be on the opposite ends of the world, and such quests rarely happen in one person's lifespan) then we could limit particular cultural and racial options depending on the location of the dungeon, thus changing the way Fantasma plays in terms of location.

An example would be a dungeon that is very greek... so characters should have some kind of greco-roman influence echoing through them to relate them to that area. If suddenly you had an oriental samurai fighting against a greco-roman minotaur monster, it reaches a high level of anarchronism that takes away the reality of the quest itself. So more than location, a time frame of technology (like weapons) would probably be in effect. Just some ideas to put up for discussion, this is the redesigning of Fantasma, I'd like for people to know what I am thinking could be possible.

2008-05-06 [Blood Raven]: Well, considering your story about the Orcs was how these had once been humans ,taken away by demons to fight some otherworldy war, and only having regained their freedom a relativly small time ago. Thus, them having battled across the multiverse in the blasted nether regions of Hell (and all that planar blah blah) you could say they have been bred to become 1 Orc/Fel race. Same goes for Elf->Troll, Dwarf->Goblin etc. etc. This background story, the Fantasma Origin of the Fel races, is still among my favorite background stories I've ever read. I lose the way you wove it into Fantasma history, and it presents a lot of background options (like Raitzu trying to erase the demonic stain and bad reputation of his race through noble and forthcoming behaviour towards others). So I'm hoping you won't change that :)

Theme-based dungeons are cool, and could definatly add something to the atmosphere and roleplay of a dungeon. Even though I do think that cultural restrictions should gradually fade away for (well-known) high level dungeons. For example, if there's this big wizard's dungeon which is supposed the be 'the ultimate test for adventurers', it's likely warriors and mages from all over the globe come to test their mettle there. But overall, I like themes. It adds depth and motivation. You could build a dungeon and just say: "there's people in the dungeon from the neighbouring lands. You don't like the neighbours. Get them out." Then you'd get a sort of culture vs. culture battle, and we can get all racist and all that :D

2008-05-07 [Adaman]: Well, the Ultimate Dungeon in Fantasma is Sarvix. The supposedly mythical flying castle "armor" of Apochryphai, however having such a dungeon is a bit against Fantasma Lore. I never really introduced it because it was supposed to have been destroyed, but I thought of a way I might be able to use it so long as people don't mind a little mystery to find out why such a thing exists. It would be a good dungeon for high level escapades, but it is still mostly set in Centra, so I would think Centra-native races (which is a good 2/3 of all races) would probably be best.

As for Racism in Fantasma... go for it ;). Just keep it to the role-playing.

2008-05-07 [Aradon Templar]: Changing characters for each dungeon is, I think, a bit of a hassle, but the reason you've presented is also a very good one and thus I agree with the idea.
As for the problem of background for orcs, it would certainly affect their appearance. Practically in terms of stats and things, though, I would think that the character would be retaining stats that would reflect his bloodline. For example, if one bloodline received a +2 to charisma and +1 to intelligence and a -2 to strength, the orc would as a result have those same modifiers. It wouldn't be necessary to keep track of them, though, because they'd already be realized in the pre-orcization statistics, so whatever modifications that occur to the statistics as a result of becoming fel would still reflect the variations in bloodlines, if that makes any sense. I'm not sure I completely understood the problem, either, but hopefully this addresses it.

2008-05-07 [Blood Raven]: Orc as a template rather than a race, then?

2008-05-10 [Adaman]: You're also forgetting that the way these dungeons are planned, you could be spending a good 4-5 months (minimum) with each character. It's not as if it is a rather short time.

Anyway, I think Orcs will probably have a similar treatment to that. I just don't think the bloodlines will have such strong differences between them. I'm also planning a mix-and-match body plan for characters, so we can say that even if everyone in that bloodline is quicker than others, we can still have the fat one in the race that is slower but heals more from eating food (or something similar to that effect).

2008-05-28 [pelv13]: i have been "away" for awhile, but i like to see forward motion, even if it isn't in the original context... i am very familar with several pen and paper roleplaying systems, so i think i may be able to offer some form of help... i noticed the reference to DnD above, which caused me to wonder if you are looking for something similar to the d20 system or if you are wanting to take it a different direction entirely...

2008-05-29 [Adaman]: I'm starting off with Fantasma Stats for characters. Fantasma was based not so much on a d20 system as much as it was a d6 system. The list is a bit rough at the moment, but it's a general outline of what I have so far. I've been tinkering with the balances, hoping to get something that allows for a little play.

2008-07-20 [Aradon Templar]: :o I recently took the time to learn (mostly) how to play D&D (from http://www.d20srd.com). This game looks completely different now. It makes a lot more sense at least XD In any case, I have a much better feel about what's going on, I think, and wanted to say again that if you need any help with this, I'd be glad to lend an opinion or a hand, whatever you need.

2008-07-21 [Leonox]: dnd 4.0 was the keep it simple, stupid release. It was made for experienced and inexperienced players.

2008-07-21 [Aradon Templar]: I am not sure what version I read on, or if it even was strictly a version and not simply standard d20 rules for various games, but I definitely learned a lot more about how these sorts of games work. The content of Fantasma earlier seemed overwhelming to me, and then I checked out D&D. Needless to say, I don't have half a clue as to how to play, still, but I have a much better idea, and can probably be a little more useful now :P

2008-07-21 [Adaman]: Fantasma is based on a 1d6 system, so it's actually a slight bit easier than the 1d20. The only difference is that the stats don't change when characters level up.

2008-07-21 [Aradon Templar]: Well, d20 wasn't so confusing, but it was just the complexity of having so many options of actions, and each action changing whether you add in the attribute modifier, if you ignore dexterity for your AC roll, all the different states you could be in, etc. And it didn't help that I haven't read a Player's Handbook yet :P

2008-07-22 [Leonox]: lol, ah the infamous d6 system. i figured you would have switched to a d20 already.

2008-07-22 [Adaman]: No need really, a d6 suffices with smaller number stats. All a d20 would do is increase the size of the numbers, it wouldn't change the math. Unless we all want to nitpick the difference between a 45 and 50 strength. Would be exactly the same as a 4.5 or 5 strength, smaller numbers -> easier math, less numbers -> easier typing. However, I would like some ideas, since I have a program now that allows me to roll any size dice, from 1d2 to 1d999.

Actions are not that complicated either, they are just the allowed number of movements, attacks, and defending in a full turn. You had to determine how much you wanted to use to attack, so you could leave some to defend or to move and attack, move and defend, etc etc. There were also some line of sight tactics you could use, since actions were valuable. If you could force a slow but powerful enemy to move instead of attack (by perhaps getting between him and a weaker ally, moving rocks to block short routes, etc), you could use that against them. If I did anything less, the combat would just be the same old hack n' slash with no tactics in moving around since you could always move the same speed in distance all the time, and the faster person is able to abuse that with strafing. I will admit though, I do tend to over-complicate some things and I am working on that.

2008-07-22 [Aradon Templar]: Nah, the old Fantasma was a system I understood. I was referring to D&D, which had so many options of attack and other complications. Could choose to grapple, bull rush, sunder, attempt to grab their weapon, charge, etc, and the rolling mechanics were all different. I was like, "Just give me a sword or something so I can swing it?"

Well, I suppose you could mess with the rolling system by having feats or abilities that added to the size of the dice you roll, perhaps. Like a "greater strength" skill that adds two to your die size for three rounds or something. Not sure what you had in mind in regards to ideas with dice, though.

2008-07-22 [Adaman]: I would just stick with the 1d6, but I'm open to ideas.

2008-09-09 [Adaman]: http://www.elftown.com/stuff/FantasmaWorldMapNew.jpg

That's the new map for Fantasma. Unfortunately, it's in a format that prevents it from loading in a smaller size ratio as I want it to.

2008-10-28 [Earoluim]: ....