Song of Blades

2006-12-13 [Lady of Lore]: That's really very indepth! Thank you very much. I'll make the needed adjustments as soon as I have time. Thankyou!

2006-12-13 [Dumnorix]: Always a pleasure :D I'll have a look at the rest of the lessons to see if there's anything else I can help with.

2006-12-13 [Dumnorix]: "the favorite of heavy hitters such as barbarians, warriors, and other muscle powerful characters."

Actually, the two handed sword ("Spadona" or "Spada da due mani") was actually a very refined weapon, especially in the XVIth century when it saw its appex: In fact, all modern fencing theory can be found in the handling of the two-handed sword. It was not used much as a battlefield weapon, except by men posted near the standard-bearer to defend him: Rather, the two-handed sword was a duelling weapon, used by noblemen to settle their affairs of honour before the rapier was dominant. Also used for such duels was the bastard sword (Spada da mano ed mezza, or hand-and-a-half sword), an older weapon (more typically medieval than the two-hander).

One must remember that two-handed swords, even though they are often pictured as medieval, were more renaissance developpments: soldiers wielded these to attack pike formations, and sergeants in pike formations used them as well. They were not often used for cutting, as one might expect, as they quite hard to handle for such play: Rather, they were used very much as a spear, and for making great leverage to push aside pikes.

For Italian references on the use of the two-hander, read Alfieri, Marozzo, or Lovino. For German sources, read Meyer or others.
For a great Italian source on the hand-and-a-half sword, read Fiore dei Liberi's Flos Duellatorum.

Also, a fellow at ARMA demonstrated that a rapier, parrying from forte to foible with a hanging parade, was perfectly capable of blocking a full-fledged blow from a two-hander, and responding inmediately afterwards, without suffering any damage.

2006-12-13 [Dumnorix]: The spadroon was a classic gentleman's sidearm, similar to the smallsword, but used for cutting as well as thrusting. It might be assimilated to a rather slender, straight sabre; the spadroon was also known as the "sheering sword" and was a very popular weapon in the XVIIIth century, especially in England. In Spain it was almost unknown, as the Spaniards persisted in using a light, "smallswordized" version of the rapier: It had the main characteristics of the smallsword, but it looked like a rapier and still could cut some (I own one such piece -- very interesting indeed).

2006-12-13 [Lady of Lore]: Hmmmm, very interesting indeed. My knowledge of blades is limited to those that I have read somewhat of and I was referancing thier usages to novels and such so I'm sure people had taken liberties with the operations of the weapons.....this information is a pretty valuable resource as it clears up the "stereotypes" of how the weapons work.

2006-12-14 [Son Goku]: Wow you really know your stuff Mr. Von Moss! sweetness. Keep posting stuff if you want, although i'm lacking a bit of the vocab, it's all really cool to read :). Very interesting, indeed! lol

2006-12-14 [Dumnorix]: No problem :)
As I said before, I applied for another course, but no-one's reviewed my application yet. Is there any way I could be admitted?

Cheers,

VM

2007-01-29 [Lady of Lore]: Hmm....sorry to have neglected my class, I'll put up more info soon and revamp the page a bit more so that it's more user friendly ^_^

2007-06-08 [Lepellier]: I'd like to bring up a point. Though I didn't notice if you were considering bastard swords and broadswords under the 1-handed category, such as the longsword, but, it was common for many styles of, especially wider bladed, longswords (i.e. the Broadsword and Bastard sword) as a hand-and-a-half sword, meaning, yes, they can be wielded in 1 hand, but are more easily wielded with both.

2007-06-08 [Lady of Lore]: Good point! I think many of my descriptions are a generealised idea of each...I do not have first hand knowledge on wielding such weapons but from a writer's point (which is a lot of what this wiki deals with) I can gather some information about some basics and such. (sorry if that was a little confusing) I think that the catagories and ways of wielding the weapons aren't a strict rule and many have exceptions as the wielder is the one who determines ultimately how a weapon is used.

Armyboy, thanks for your imput! ^_^

2007-06-08 [Lepellier]: Any time, I deal a lot in medival weaponry and the sort, and have a decent idea if you ever need anther point of veiw on weapons.

2007-06-09 [Lady of Lore]: Ok, will do ^_^ thanks!

2007-06-11 [Dumnorix]: I'm afraid that is wrong. Although it is commonly called "hand and a half sword" ("spada da mano ed mezza") there is no evidence in treatises that it was ever wielded one-handed. All evidence, historical and experimental, points towards the fact that the bastard sword was always wielded two-handed: and I invite anyone to try and wield a good replica bastard sword (such as those built by Pavel Moc or Del Tin Arme Antiche): you shall notice that the only thing you can get by wielding it one-handed is a broken wrist, and in a frank encounter, a slit throat.

2007-06-11 [Lepellier]: Now, it's not just bastard swords. And don't forget that swords evolved over the centuries, but many of the names stayed the same. There are several different swords that could be weilded one- or both- handed. Actually, Katanas could be considered a hand-and-a-half, though they were normally a 1-handed blade, for many other reasons, including ceremonial purposes, katanas were wielded two-handed.

2007-06-11 [Dumnorix]: The katana is a completely different development, from a completely different country which remained isolated from european culture, and therefore evolved separately. Plus, keep in mind that the slender, actual katana is a reduced version of the duller, more robust weapon used for war centuries before. And now, about what I said, if you're going to argue scientific fact, then I'm going to consider this discussion over. If you must verify what I say, see the investigations of the gentleman at the ARMA, HACA or AEEA. Or better still, get a copy of Fiore dei Liberi's "Flos Duellatorum" or Hans Talhoffer's "Fechbuch". I therefore maintain that your "ethymological" argument is not sufficient to discuss the fact that, both according to surviving pieces and period treatises, there were no swords that were wielded both one-handed and two-handed.

2007-06-11 [Lepellier]: Have you ever heard why the "Bastard" sword is called such? It's because it was too large to fit in the one-handed sword category, yet too small to be considered a 2-handed sword, therefore, it was a bastard. I too, have done my research, so, apearantly, someone's research isn't fully accurate, but I'd believe the scientific research of several historians.

2007-06-11 [Dumnorix]: The name is very descriptive, indeed, but rather than ethymology, one must look at these two main factors: historical treatises (that is, how the ancients themselves explain how to use it) and biomechanics (what we can do with it physically). The fact that the "bastard sword" could be used both two-handed and one-handed is mainly the fanciful development of enthusiastic yet misled victorian historians, who have been greatly surpassed in the past century and in the beginning of the present one.

2007-06-11 [Lepellier]: It's true, and even states on the wikipedia page that the treatsies mostly stated that Bastard swords were traditionally 2-handed weapons, but, even in some of the treatsies you mentioned, there are sections in which they went into detail on how a bastard sword could be wielded 1-handed, to extend the reach of the weapon. I agree that Bastard swords are traditionally two handed, but were also wielded with 1 hand at times.

2007-06-11 [Dumnorix]: Agreed then, keeping in mind that it was the exception that confirms the rule.

2007-06-11 [Lepellier]: alright, we have a mutual agreement on the use of bastard swords.

2008-04-24 [Aura moonstar]: what about other bladed weapon such the Japanese used.