2009-11-08 [Balthizar]: Main Entry: ven·geance
Pronunciation: \ˈven-jən(t)s\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from venger to avenge, from Latin vindicare to lay claim to, avenge — more at vindicate
Date: 14th century
: punishment inflicted in retaliation for an injury or offense : retribution

— with a vengeance 1 : with great force or vehemence <undertook reform with a vengeance>
2 : to an extreme or excessive degree <the tourists are back—with a vengeance>

Tis vengeance. No, you are trying to prove a point, however, by insulting Mort back, you were being vengeful. Tada.
Also, my mind is a bit wacky. Things come and go. Often times, I don't think to post something, untill I've already done so.
See, the difference between the two of you is this.
You seem to know -something- of the christian religion.
She however, seems to know little.
While you can defend your own stand point.
She cannot.
My point is, do not claim something, if you do not posse the knowledge to back it up.
Thats my point.
I actually am in a similar boat as you, though its not quite the same. More on that later, right now, i need a nice long drive.

2009-11-08 [Ravendust]: Yes, I see what vengeance is. But I wasn't doing anything dealing with punishment or vengeance so it makes the point null.

2009-11-08 [Gypsy Mystik]: I never said I believe in what he did... I just believe that a man, a normal man named Jesus existed...but I am a scholar of mythology and beliefs and science, so I know how the natural ways of the earth and weather can be believed to be something like a mireacle... though I also believe that there are 'things' out there that can't be explained, like I had said before...

2009-11-08 [Balthizar]: No, actually it does not.
You insulting him back is the punishment, and, you are doing so in retaliation for what he did.
Thus, vengence.

So, if you do not believe in what he did Gypsy, how are you a christian?

2009-11-08 [Gypsy Mystik]: I said it all in this simply statement: "though I also believe that there are 'things' out there that can't be explained, like I had said before..."

2009-11-08 [Balthizar]: That does not make you a Christian. A Christian, is someone who beleive in Christ, and accepts him as their one true saviour and God.
:/
hence why I'm not a Christian.
By definition.
Because well...I butt heads with everyone too much.
The whole supporting gay rights would piss off too many mormons.

2009-11-08 [Mortified Penguin]: If you don't believe in every part of the Christian bible, you can't be a Christian. To simply believe that a man named 'Christ' existed is not being a Christian.

The entire scripture, according to the scripture itself, is divinely inspired. Every word of it was written by God himself through the prophets. To question a single word of it is to question God himself. By saying you believe that most of the bible is true, but some of it is questionable, is to call God a liar. All this is according to the bible itself.

2009-11-08 [Gypsy Mystik]: Mort, just stop it... I am what I am... you can't change it....

2009-11-08 [Mortified Penguin]: But what you claim to be is a paradox. It doesn't make sense. And if you're sure of what you believe in, then surely you can withstand some questioning of your beliefs. You are sure of yourself, right? Then why can't you debate your beliefs openly?

2009-11-08 [Gypsy Mystik]: you are debating, using a belief you don't believe in... how about that for a paradox?

2009-11-08 [Silver Moon]: Is there a reason this wiki keeps being used for arguments? This is a support wiki please take your arguments elsewhere guys....

2009-11-08 [Balthizar]: Actually, it makes sense for there to be debaites on a support wiki.

To Gypsy.
He atleast is using a belief he understands, and knows about.
While what you claim to be is a paradox yes, you don't seem to really know much about it.
Which is what he is getting at.

Though, at this point, the debait has strayed from "Gay Marriage" to " How can one be Christian and Wiccan?" an interesting leap. Now, if we could curve this back to the topic of this wiki...

2009-11-08 [Gypsy Mystik]: Mort's argument was that you can't be Christian and be gay...

I may not know the bible that well, but I do know enough to use it... and I know history... what Mort most likely doesn't know is that at the time of the 'writing' of the bible by man, it was morally okay for a man to sleep with another man or to be with another man as long as the first said man had an heir to carry on his name.... it was a practiced used before the writing of the bible and a practice used after the writing of the bible...

and to the "How can one be Christian and Wiccan?" it is possible, there are many who have come from Christian backgrounds, having gone to church and read the bible (I have at least read one book fully, and I do go to a Catholic church but am Not in anyway catholic) that have moved to a very open minded religion such as Wicca/Paganism and still to this day go to the church they were raised in... 

I come from a Southern Baptist and Lutherean background, go to a Catholic church where I sing in the choir, I have both Christian and Wiccan/Pagan beliefs and I'm Bi-sexual... and proud of it

2009-11-08 [Mortified Penguin]: "at the time of the 'writing' of the bible by man, it was morally okay for a man to sleep with another man"

So what? That doesn't have anything to do with what the bible actually says though.

And no. You cannot be Christian and Wiccan, because the Christian faith doesn't allow for that.

2009-11-08 [Linderel]: This is getting just a little bit repetitive.

2009-11-08 [Balthizar]: It's bible bashing in essence.
No one can win, and the same thing will be said.

And you are right and wrong.
His argument was that you cant be christian, and be gay/wiccan as well.

The bible does teach you cannot serve two masters.
It's God, or not.
He does not share the lime light.

Also, just because at the time of the writing, it was okay, does not mean it was okay with God.
With man sure, with God no.
Thats the difference.
Also, just because you go to a Catholic church, where you sing choir and take part of communion, does not make you a christian.
Tell me, what Christian beliefs do you have?

2009-11-08 [Gypsy Mystik]: I don't have to defend myself... I have my beliefs, and I know what I am...

2009-11-09 [Mortified Penguin]: [Gypsy Mystik] - Do you believe in the bible 100%? Do you believe every word of it... yes or no?

2009-11-09 [Balthizar]: Okay Mort, you are getting too close to going overboard now..

2009-11-09 [Mortified Penguin]: It's a simple yes or no question.

2009-11-11 [Silver Moon]: This is having little to do with the wiki at this point...and as [Linderel]said it is getting repetitive...